Feedback about 2 ch Mix for Cinema

[Carlos]

Hi there,

Everytime I get to listen to a mix I've worked on in a 2ch cinema room ( like in a documentary or short film festival) i get so frustrated about how different and dull it sounds.

I just thought to ask you guys to give me some feedback , wise advise or a few tips about what would I have to improve ( EQ balance, loudness, dynamic range, etc). It looked good on the meters but I should be missing something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiCfk6G1RmU

Thanks for your time!!

Cheers

[engaudio]

Did the projectionist adjust the EQ to suit playback from a dvd?
Usually not...

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9 ... -2002.html
(down the bottom of the page is most relevant)

[Ray]

But there usually is no way for the projectionist to do that........

The last 2 channel show I did got screened at the Film Festival and I was horror-struck as the quiet slowly building opening appeared in immediate distortion and stayed that way throughout the entire 70 mins. It was screened off Digi Beta and the video was also unterminated, resulting in anything that approached peak white take on a purple blob effect. Lovely. Same has happened with DVD screening that were mixed on full range monitoring chains.

But I digress..... It's really hard to make stuff that sounds good for full range mix systems sound good in x-curve rooms (cinemas). One major reason is that you aren't actually using one of the main tools used in cinema tracks - the centre speaker! You are left with a hole in the middle. The centre speaker roots the viewer to the screen, without it dialogue seems dislocated. The x-curve chisels off the top end of the treble range (for a good reason as told by Engaudio's link). The only real way to get the best result is to mix a 2 track in a room with an x-curve equalisation chain in the monitoring chain. You will end up pushing a bit more top end into the mix but in the right areas for it to sound good in a big room.

Believe me, if you listen to full range audio in a large cinema sized space without the x-curve it sounds truly awful. The tops take your head off, nothing like large horn tweeters and sharp-as 10khz treble end. It's like listening to a bad PA mixer at a music gig having a really bad day with a band with 5 guitarists live on stage with big amps...........

Ray

[engaudio]

True....

But there usually is no way for the projectionist to do that........ Ray

[Carlos]

Thanks guys!

The link and your comments are very enlightening....it's ( a bit) relieving knowing that I'm not the first one who feel that godawful watching my work.

what do you think about the mix anyway?

Cheers

[bru95bg]

[quote="Carlos"]
Everytime I get to listen to a mix I've worked on in a 2ch cinema room ( like in a documentary or short film festival) i get so frustrated about how different and dull it sounds.
[/quote]

Hi Carlos -couple of thoughts -Do other shows in the screenings sound dull? If everything in the screenings sounds dull it may be the playback system -if its just your mixs then it may be you are not mixing in a honest environment and you might want to tune up your monitors/make some changes to your mix room.

Most cinemas are set up to play audio off film surprisingly very few have a good system for playing audio from other sources. In fact pretty much every cinema has to put the audio through their Dolby processor regardless of what its playing off. So your 2ch mix will be LtRt decoded on playback in a 2ch cinema room -and the playback level will be set arbitrarily. if you arn't listening to your mix through a decoder when you mix then you will get some surprises when you get to hear things in the cinema. So either mixing in mono or finding a way to listen to some sort of LtRt decode while you mix would probably help you with getting your mixs to translate better to the 2ch cinema room. (Although not the same as mixing through a proper cinema encode decode system)

If you are relying on compressors /multiband limiters etc as a overall mix bus thing to keep you set for TV broadcast levels etc -then the result in a larger room might be a fairly flat and non dynamic mix when you hear things in the 2ch cinema room. In a big room -you can really play the dynamic range (even in a 2ch mix) -the downside is the mix that sounds good in the cinema might sound too dynamic on youtube or TV. So you might want one version for cinema and a more compressed version for broadcast/internet.

Anyway hope some of this is of use to you

All the best

Bruno

[nzl62]

The key issue here is the x curve and room alignment of a cinema. Having played an integral part in design and spec of Theatre One at Savalas.co.uk and achieving the first Dolby Premier status in the UK, I learned the hard way. Studio monitors today have a very extended top end. In many ways they flatter and can make mixers lazy because thing tend to sound good. A major culprit here is Genelec.
The x curve rolls off heavily in the top end.. do a search for the x curve spec and see for your self.
As such good film mix rooms have this applied, partly from the systems crossovers and partly from the eq on board a Dolby CP65/650 cinema processor.
If you mix on std monitors in a std room, on balance it will always feel dull in comparison.
You can make a pretend x curve on the master out of your Daw or Mixer. Simply insert a shelf from approx 8k up wards. Rolloff might be 3 dB per cotave but I'd need to check. This will encourage you to work the mix in the top end.
Add to that all the comments above about crap cinema playback etc etc